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 Post subject: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:49 am 
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Cheating Bastard

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:40 am
Posts: 46
I'm new to this site. :scared:

I didn't see anything posted on here about this. The autographs supposedly signed through the mail by Heston were actually signed by a secretary it turns out :censored: . Here's a long thread discussing the autographs with a few interesting stories about Charlton Heston and his autograph too.

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/charlton-heston-secretarial?id=3524372%3ATopic%3A63940&page=1#comments


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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Damned Dirty Admin
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Welcome to the forum!

I don't doubt that he had a secretary that could have been signing things for him. However, I have a very hard time imagining that Chuck used a secretary to write autographs for him at all times. What about all those times he responded to the fans with a letter? (we have at least two members here with a story about that.) Was that the secretary as well? He seemed to genuinely like to correspond with his fans.

Interestng thread nonetheless, thanks for the link!

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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:45 am 
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Prince Judah
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God, they are discussing this along 74 pages! I could not spend much time to check all of them, I just went through 3/4 pages. Anyway, I have read so many stories from fans who met him, requested him for an autograph, and got it immediately with a nice chuckle from him(that's a bonus). And though I am not an expert in lettering and signature-study, I can give you a concrete example -- I hope at least some members here have heard of the great Oscar-winning Indian director(he won the Lifetime Achievement award) Satyajit Ray. He was a famous film-director, a well-known author and a wonderful artist as well. He used two kinds of signatures, one for his writings, and the other for his sketches. And he never employed secretaries for that. So , a man's hand is not a graphical designing apparatus, and isn't it very hard to imagine that Chuck's handwriting must appear exactly the same in all signatures ? He might also have two forms of signature, of course there might be some cases of secretarial signatures, but I don't they are so many as to make us doubt the the authenticity of all his signatures.

Welcome to the forum, better side.

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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:14 am 
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Prince Judah
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And here is a photo of Chuck with a fan whom he welcomed as a guest at his home, and the gentleman later obtained it , signed, through mail. The signature, according to the signature-theorist's 'Chall' theory, should not be 'authentic'-- but can it be so? He sent it to one with whom he spent a whole day at his home!I am posting the photo here, and I'll post the story behind this in the thread, "Heston the Cordial and Candid" under General discussions. Please look up, don't miss.


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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:59 am 
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Cheating Bastard

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I've looked through a lot of his signatures and it seems pretty cut and dry that the signatures with an r in Charlton that looks more like an l have been signed by a secretary. Letters typed out and then signed with the l instead of the r are believed to be signed by a secretary too. All known examples from checks, contracts, and things of that sort, have the r instead of the l.


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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:41 pm 
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El Cid
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I once bought quite a lot of paperback copies of Heston when he was signing IN THE ARENA and they are exactly the same signature as the one above with that guy. And I was right next to Heston as he signed them.


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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:01 am 
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Cheating Bastard

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:40 am
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I'm not an expert but as discussed in the thread I posted, the big auction houses don't sell the ones reportedly signed by a secretary through the mail anymore. They're not considered authentic. The theory matches up with the ones I received in the mail and the ones I obtained in-person around the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Soylent Corp. Lackey

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:55 pm
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Location: New York
Hi -- As a brand new member to this site who has just joined today, I was very much afraid to bring this topic up, only because I know a lot of you fellow fans out there like me probably obtained Heston signatures through the mail (as I too have over the years), and I did not wish to upset anyone. However, it seems that this subject has already been dealt with via this thread, so I thought I would join in...

I discovered this news a year or so ago with the 'Autograph Website Link' posted above, and at first I was a little skeptical myself as well... But the more I followed the autograph discussion and saw various examples and I examined my own autographs, the more I have to believe that Mr. Heston had his mail-in signatures signed by his secretary. We all know that Chuck was VERY gracious about his fans and giving them autographs... thus, it comes as a disappointment to discover that through mail, he used his secretary.

I have been fortunate to have met Mr. Heston a total of three times over the years in New York City. Each time I obtained an autograph, and each one of these three in-person signatures demonstrates the accepted lower cased "r" in "Charlton". Unfortunately, during these very same years I also had obtained a half dozen or more signed photos from him through mailing to his home, which I mailed in a self-addressed-stamped-envelope, and ALL of these when returned to me had the dreaded "ll" or ("Chall"). (I did not realize these were not real until only recently when I came across the online discussion).

Sad as I am to concede this, it does appear that any autograph (such as the one in the above picture) that appears to be "Chall" (and not "Char") is indeed a forgery. If anyone were to take the time to read the very long discussion in the "autograph" link provided on their website, it is inescapable.

As we can see, the fakes are very good, except for the "Chall".
While it's true that people do not sign their names the same way all the time, there are some characteristics which are always true. And this is the case of the "Char", which remained consistent throughout all decades of Mr. Heston's career.

My advice would be not to obtain any seller autographs that look like two identical ll's together, as in "Chall".

Sorry to start out this way but it was the first thing that popped into my mind that I thought fans might want to be aware of. I do look forward to joining all of you in other Heston discussions.


Last edited by Joe Karlosi on Fri May 09, 2014 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Damned Dirty Admin
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No worries, Joe. This kind of information is very interesting and helpful.

I find it very interesting that you've met Chuck, several of our other members have as well and have shared their stories in this thread: who-here-has-met-charlton-heston-t114.html

I'd love it if you'd share your stories in there, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Charlton Heston autographs obtained through the mail
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:07 am 
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Soylent Corp. Lackey

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:55 pm
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Location: New York
Detective Thorn wrote:
However, I have a very hard time imagining that Chuck used a secretary to write autographs for him at all times. What about all those times he responded to the fans with a letter? (we have at least two members here with a story about that.) Was that the secretary as well? He seemed to genuinely like to correspond with his fans.


I also received a letter from Chuck. It was in 1999 when a friend and I were writing a now-defunct fan magazine. I'd sent him a copy of the magazine and congratulated him on having a recent good reading on his bout with prostate cancer (which was in the news at the time), and I asked if he might grace us with a telephone interview. The letter was typed out on his own stationery, and it was signed. Chuck thanked me for taking the time and effort to send him the magazine, and for my inquiring about his health and that he was very optimistic over the good reading, and advised any man I know over the age of 40 to be screened regularly. (He never mentioned the interview request).

But now, over 10 years after receiving this letter and studying the "Autograph Site" discussion, it is painfully obvious that the signature is a secretarial, with a "Chall". Now, whether the letter was entirely a courtesy from his assistant, I don't know; maybe he dictated it. All I know (or believe now) is, the autograph there is one of several fakes that I received from Heston's home.

I thought I was rather lucky and uinque to have received the personal letter, but since this time I have seen other people have also received almost identical type-written letters (meaning the type of stationery and the way the text is presented). All the ones I've seen so far are also contain the infamous "Chall".


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